Is Ashtanga Yoga Dangerous?
I was in a yoga teacher training workshop over the weekend, and our teacher mentioned off-hand that a number of senior teachers in a certain yoga tradition that he chose not to name were getting hip replacement surgery! I was, of course, extremely curious to know what tradition he was talking about, but did not want to waste his time after class to ask him about “yoga gossip.” After the workshop, however, I regretted not asking, as it would be a good thing to know if a particular type of yoga was likely to cause such devastating injury.
So what was he referring to? I racked my brain to consider the options. Was it Bikram? Well, Bikram might cause some issues due to the hot room, but I don’t think there are enough hip openers in Bikram to cause major hip problems. What about Anusara? I don’t know enough about it, but with its focus on arm balances, perhaps the bigger danger there would simply be falling on your face! Iyengar seems unlikely, considering its focus on alignment and props. Kundalini yoga certainly entered my mind as a good possibility – there’s no alignment, and doing too many frogs could possibly not just cause hip problems but tweak your knees. But I felt that he wasn’t talking about Kundalini yoga, since for many yogis, Kundalini is a bastard off-shoot and not really considered a true yoga “tradition.”
Ashtanga was the last thing to come to my mind, and – apologies to you die-hard Ashtanga practitioners – the one that immediately registered an “a-ha!” Who knows if that’s what he was really talking about, but I decided to take a trip through the Internet to see if there was any correlation at all between Ashtanga and hip replacement. I found one very interesting thread on an Ashtanga discussion forum.
One person shared the following:
Yup, I’ve given up ashtanga as of 7 months ago. Got too old. My left hip disintegrated and I had total hip replacement surgery. Ashtanga may have contributed but if it hadn’t been ashtanga, it would have been something else, maybe. I’m able to exercise at the gym on a stationary bike, treadmill, and elliptical machine but agree with neti that nothing gives you the total mind /body workout of ashtanga. I plan to go back to a light, gentle yoga practice starting with an appointment I have coming up with a teacher who has hip replacement students. Would love to hear from any other board posters who have had hip replacement surgery.
Right off the bat, this post shows one of the problems with assessing the long-term effects of strenuous yoga practices. Was this person’s hip replacement due to Ashtanga or something else? We really can’t know. But someone with a medical background weighed in to say:
After working in orthopaedics I could never justify, let alone recommend, this form of practice for any length of time. It was really the beginning of the end for me.
If I could offer any advice it would be to enjoy it in youth, and prepare to let it go completely in maturity.
And someone else chimed in:
…some primary series poses can be problematic to older people with disintegrating bones. Many of the standing poses, especially the one leg balancing poses, are not good. Poses that place a strain upon the hips, like bjujapidasana and the maris, contribute to the problem. When I showed my David Swenson primary series practice card to my physical therapist she recoiled in horror and started pointing out all the poses that would further injure my hip. I’m not saying that ashtanga causes hip replacement surgery, just relating my personal experience.
Now here’s the big elephant in the living room, not just for Ashtanga but for many yoga traditions. Much of the way we teach yoga now has nothing to do with how yoga was traditionally taught for centuries. It’s only been in modern times that we’ve had big drop-in classes where anyone on the street of any fitness level could jump into a yoga class. We really haven’t done enough studies to know whether certain yoga poses are actually good for long-term practice or some are just good “for show.” By that, I mean, I suspect many of the more complicated and eye-popping yoga poses were created not for regular exercise, but to demonstrate the power of yoga to an audience.
I mean, really, is there any real benefit in terms of physical health or improved quality of meditation by doing the Ashtanga posture karandavasana shown in the picture above? Is lotus pose in and of itself necessary to achieve deep meditation? No.
One study on Ashtanga Yoga has shown that more than half experienced an injury lasting longer than a month:
The 110 practitioners surveyed, 68 (62%) reported having had at least one injury lasting longer than one month, and some practitioners reported more than one injury. A total of 107 musculoskeletal injuries were reported. The rate of new practice-related injuries was 1.18 injuries per 1,000 hours of practice. If recurrence of pre-existing injury and non-specific low back pain of unknown origin were included, the injury rate became 1.45 injuries per 1,000 hours of practice. Injuries related to the practice of Yoga were most common in the lower extremities, especially in the hamstrings or knees. None of the practitioners reported suffering permanent impairment from their injuries; however, this may be a consequence of the sampling procedure (see Limitations of the sample and survey, below).
I presume one of the limitations of the survey would include the short-term vs. long-term nature of the study. A short-term study would not be able to judge the effects of the body into old age.
Now, I can imagine some Ashtangis will complain and say that this doesn’t really represent Ashtanga or that people who get injured aren’t listening to their body and it’s “their” fault, not the fault of the practice. Look, I’ve done some Ashtanga prep classes where you learn the primary series. There are many things I like about the primary series. But you are in denial if you think that Ashtanga doesn’t have a bit more possibility of injury vs. a more gentle form of yoga, especially when it comes to the more advanced poses.
Granted, I’m not an Ashtanga Yoga devotee. I haven’t personally experienced the benefits of a regular Ashtanga practice. But my impression (as an outsider) is that there are some, not all, but some Ashtanga practitioners who let their Ashtanga affiliation go to their heads a little bit. They identify too much with the yoga practice as not just a badge of honor, but their identity. But achieving a challenging pose isn’t about being spiritual, it’s about ego. And from that attachment to the Ashtanga egoic “high,” some Ashtangis seem to have lost their objectivity.
Here’s just one example – a blog post by an Ashtanga teacher who claims that Ashtanga yoga practitioners who turn to Iyenger for help on proper alignment are simply trying to “distract” themselves from their yoga practice! This sentence totally blew me away:
I feel what is really going on is not a wish to learn about alignment but a wish for distraction in what is happening in our own Ashtanga practise, perhaps a wish for distraction for the lack of ‘progress; or the injuries that keep occurring.
Seriously? If someone is having recurring injuries, isn’t it probable that something is wrong? And maybe they really do need to go to a qualified Iyengar teacher for some help!
This teacher then goes on to claim that many injuries in Ashtanga are simply psycho-somatic, and blames this on some sort of deficit of will upon the part of the student:
Again the experience of viewing oneself on the mat daily has become too intense or reached an uncomfortable place and the welcome distraction now comes from injury/pain with the blessing of the healthcare practitioner.
Seriously, if you find a teacher like this, who blames your dislike of a practice and your actual injuries on your own personal failings, run, don’t walk, out the door.
Now, I’m sure most Ashtanga teachers are not this insensitive and clueless. I’m also not trying to wholesale condemn Ashtanga here. If you are physically fit and flexible, and you want a challenging yoga practice, Ashtanga may be for you. But I don’t think Ashtanga is for everyone – certainly not older people who have never done yoga, not people who are injured, and not people who aren’t talented physically (meaning, people who simply aren’t athletic in nature and have a hard time with basic yoga postures).
Yoga practitioners under 50 who have been athletes, gymnasts and dancers may be the best candidates for rigorous Ashtanga practices. But even then, I wonder if perhaps over time those who have been fit and athletic in their youth might benefit from dialing it down a bit as they get into middle age and beyond.
The most important takeaway in all of this is: BE CAREFUL! Perhaps you are starting out in Ashtanga with a very strict teacher who, like the person I quoted above, doesn’t take injury seriously. Listen to your own body! If you feel Ashtanga (or any other yoga practice) is pushing your body too hard, find another type of yoga! Don’t let someone guilt trip you into injuring yourself. Yoga should not be about achieving difficult postures. Yoga isn’t about asana for the sake of asana. It should be about a whole mind/body practice that nurtures and inspires you, not one that leaves you bruised and battered.
Hi ~ frequent reader/new commenter here
Was just thinking that your teacher might have been referring to something mentioned in this essay that was on Elephant Journal… scroll down under the heading “Conduits for Connection” & you’ll see he mentions hip issues with Iyengar practitioners.
http://www.elephantjournal.com/2011/07/the-box-being-outside-looking-inside-an-ashtanga-story-part-one-norman-blair/
You might actually find Norman’s whole story interesting (I definitely did & I’m not an Ashtangi). You can find the whole thing here if you don’t want to click thru all the links on Elephant – it’s a PDF: http://www.yogawithnorman.co.uk/worddocs/The_box-an_ashtanga_journey.pdf
Cheers
Respected Sir.
Allow me to introduce myself. I am Bharath Basavraju from Mysore, Karmataka, INDIA.
As i was reading the article so many things struck in my mind. Well don’t worry i won’t bother by explaining with you all those things.
Well from many centuries yoga was an philosophical practice as i am sure you know that! Up until yoga was introduced to western society! I am so sorry to say western people have to be condemned for what is happening in Yoga today!
You are talking about ASHTANGA YOGA like its an practce it harmful to a practitioner. As you yourself admitted you never practiced & never really tried to understand it have you sir? don’t you think you are a little out of line!
Of course i agree some of the things which you mentioned there like Ego & competing with others etc…. But the bottom line is EVERY ASANA CAN BE DONE SAFELY & WITH THE COMPLETE BENIFITS! WHEN THE TEACHER & STUDENTS ARE CONSCIOUS & RESPONSIBLE FOR THERE PRACTICE. But you can point out those things for the facts on the teachers & students but not on the Yoga itself.
Simply saying what you said means no one can do any advanced asanas just do the simple one isn’t it!. Because if you read Hatha Yoga Pradipika & modren Ashtanga Yoga Manul, asanas are the same only difference is in Ashtanga Yoga Primary series some of the advanced asanas might be difficult or even dangerous, but with the proper guidance & virtual practice you can achieve them with out INJURIES.
BUT you are clever & mildly ended your article by saying nice things. I enjoyed the last paragraph though.
This comment is not meant to ridicule or to say you are wrong & i am right! it is just an opinion!
Namasthe
Bharath
Hi Namasteph,
thanks a lot for looking at my site.
I am really sorry that I have written my article in a way that led it to be misunderstood.
You quoted me on this-
“I feel what is really going on is not a wish to learn about alignment but a wish for distraction in what is happening in our own Ashtanga practise, perhaps a wish for distraction for the lack of ‘progress; or the injuries that keep occurring”.
I was just making the point that a regular yoga practise is difficult for most of us and it can get a bit too intense, so sometimes we can look for distraction and do other things. I was making the point that I feel its best to choose one practise and one teacher that fits with you and try and commit to that. Alignment is no protection against injuries, there is no protection against injuries. The only thing we can do is listen to what our bodies are telling us and what feels right.
Regarding blaming people for their pain or their injuries – that is out of the question. Blame has no place in someones pain or injuries. I was merely saying that pain can have many causes and that there can often be a strong psychosomatic factor in pain. People like Dr Sarno have been writing convincingly about the enormous influence of psychosomatic variables in pain for the last 2-3 decades. Looking at psychosomatic factors in pain and injuries is taking a more holistic view in what is going on for the person.
I was surprised you described me as insensitive and clueless. I was also surprised with the kundalini/bastard comment you made.
Regards
Christos
Andrea, thanks for the link. It’s interesting that he said Iyenger folks have hip issues and Asthanga people have knee issues. But what really disturbed me were these two paragraphs above:
This wanting mind means that we might be less likely to critique the way that these postures are adjusted by teachers: some adjustments are verging on brutal because of that drive to be getting further on through the sequence. There are the nightmare stories of over-enthusiastic teachers struggling to force round pegs of individuality into what could be viewed as the square holes of Ashtanga.
Too many adjustments have been done with too little awareness and rather than the body being a temple, it becomes a battlefield to be bullied into perceived perfect posture. How many authorised teachers have broken people’s knees in postures such as bhekasana or garbha pindasana – and certified teachers breaking femurs in Marichysasana B? And the many examples of everyday Ashtanga teachers causing injury through too much zeal, too much attachment to how a posture should be (and also of course making mistakes – that human fallibility).
If it’s true that some teachers are breaking knees and legs with adjustments (in whatever form of yoga) it’s something the yoga community should be aware of.
Christos, I appreciate your posting here, though I will have to disagree with you on a few points. You wrote:
I was just making the point that a regular yoga practise is difficult for most of us and it can get a bit too intense, so sometimes we can look for distraction and do other things. I was making the point that I feel its best to choose one practise and one teacher that fits with you and try and commit to that.
Pardon me, but I get the sense you are attached to your students sticking with your brand of yoga and how you feel yoga should be approached. But is that really about their needs or yours as a teacher? If a student feels drawn to study a different form of yoga, I don’t see why they should be made guilty or “less than” for doing that. And if a form of yoga becomes “too intense” then maybe it’s not right for a person. Patanjali himself said that yoga poses should allow for ease – it shouldn’t be about strain or pushing past difficulty.
Alignment is no protection against injuries, there is no protection against injuries. The only thing we can do is listen to what our bodies are telling us and what feels right.
There is “no protection against injuries?” Seriously? So if I bring a student into shoulderstand I should just let the chips fall where they may, and if they end up turning their head to the side while in the inversion and hurting their neck then c’est la vie?
I think it’s good for people to listen to their own bodies but if people just listened to what “feels right” all the time without turning to a qualified instructor for help, what “feels right” may actually be a bad habit that simply feels more comfortable. I have always had rounded shoulders and a swayback. What “feels right” for me is to round my shoulders and to have poor posture. What feels a little awkward at first, but is ultimately better for me, is to stand up straight and open up my chest area and stop rounding my shoulders. I would not understand how to improve my posture were it not for some of the great yoga teachers I’ve had.
I don’t see what the point of having a yoga teacher would be if they can’t help with alignment and safety. Sure, they can run us through a series poses, but so could a computer program or a robot. A *good* teacher knows how to provide a safe environment for their students.
As for this idea that pain and injuries are psychosomatic – aiyiyi. When you are a yoga teacher you should be totally conservative and err on the side of believing what your student is telling you is real. How are you qualified to determine whether someone is having a psychosomatic episode? Are you also a therapist? Do you take the time to do a full therapy evaluation before determining that your students are “psychosomatic”? If you have not, you have absolutely no business diagnosing students as hypochondriacs. You could be harming your students with real injuries that way.
Stephanie, this is an interesting topic. I am an Ashtanga practitioner and instructor. I agree with your conclusion but I fear that your title and some of your text may be scaring folks away from a very beneficial practice. Isn’t it the same as writing a piece and titling it “Is Running Dangerous?” I would like to make the following points:
- Ashtanga Yoga is a vigorous form of yoga and as you say, is not meant for everyone. All vigorous activities, including running and cycling can cause injuries. Similarly, you could argue that running is dangerous and will wear out your knees.
- Instructors of any tradition who adjust students open themselves to the possibility that they could injure their student. This is why it is important to find a knowledgeable, discerning instructor. I have been injured by adjustments. What is important is for the student to communicate to the instructor. I did not in the instances where I was injured. I have students who desire extreme adjustments and others that I know from working with them over the weeks of classes that a light touch is all that is desired. Adjustments serve two purposes, they help get a student closer to the full expression of a pose so that they can have muscle memory of it and provide a good stretch. As you point out, the instructor must discern what is desired by and healthy for the student. Neither student nor instructor should be attached to an outcome. You allude to the practice of using adjustments so that the students can get farther into the series. This comes from the tradition of not allowing students to practice beyond a pose that they cannot fully move in to. Fortunately, I am noticing that more and more Ashtanga instructors are letting this tradition fall by the wayside. Everyone’s body is different and there may be some poses that a person will never be able to access. Most instructors that I know allow students to practice each pose to the best of their ability. I believe in that philosophy as well.
- I’ve seen Iyengar snobs, Bikram snobs, Ashtanga snobs, Kundalini snobs and more. I don’t think Ashtanga has a lock on the egotists or snobs, but that’s my own, possibly biased view.
- You wonder if some folks really find a benefit from a difficult pose such as Karandavasana. I believe that they do. Every single person on this planet has a different body. What you do for your practice is different from what I do for my practice. I can easily imagine that for some people, they may find such a pose a very fulfilling part of their practice. That is the beauty of yoga. There are so many wonderful poses at so many different levels. It is fantastic. Each and every person can put together their own practice with poses that may keep them limber, strong, mentally grounded, or whatever it is that they gain from their practice. Isn’t your question sort of like questioning why a person would need to run 10-12 miles for their exercise? Most people find three miles very beneficial. I don’t think it’s fair for us to judge another person’s practice.
- Your comment, “Yoga practitioners under 50 who have been athletes, gymnasts and dancers may be the best candidates for rigorous Ashtanga practices.” does not ring true for me. I am 56 years old. My Ashtanga practice continues to improve each year. At some point in my life I realize that I will be, as you say, “dialing it down a bit,” but I’m hoping that doesn’t happen until my 70s, at the earliest. Research has shown that our bodies are more resilient than we expect. Have you seen some of the poses Vanda Scaravelli was able to access well into her 80s? I have practiced with people in their 70s and they were happily doing as much of the practice as they could without injury.
Ashtanga is an intelligently developed practice. It is the only form of exercise that I have found that combines a vigorous physical exercise regimen with a meditative practice. If you are doing a Mysore practice (without instruction) you must maintain awareness of the present moment or you will find that you are continuing your breaths beyond the five counts and will forget which pose you need to do next. You state, “I haven’t personally experienced the benefits of a regular Ashtanga practice.” and therefore my guess is that you have not reached the point where this meditative element kicks in.
As you say, Ashtanga is not for everyone. When potential students call me or the studios where I teach we always mention that Ashtanga is a vigorous practice. I also check in with first-time students in my classes to ensure they are emotionally prepared for this type of class.
We must all practice prudence while remaining mindful that we might be scaring someone off who may benefit greatly from such a valuable practice. It is a fine line.
Regards, Joel DiGirolamo
Hi Stephanie, no not at all. I don’t have a preference which form of yoga people practise, all yoga is good. People should practise what they are drawn to.
Regarding alignment as a protection against injuries, sadly we do get injured even with meticulous alignment and Iyengar students also have injuries. We have to be careful and use common sense and awareness. Not attempt things that are inappropriate for us at our stage of practise and not to start looking around in shoulderstands etc.
Regarding psychosomatic episodes and hypochondriosis, the two things are entirely unrelated. I am not sure why you have brought them together.
I do find you have misunderstood my article and responded aggressively and at times inappropriately. Yoga is about unity and being rude and disrespectful based on your own misreading is saddening.
Hi there,
Namaste. I just wanted to share some friendly feedback regarding your article on Ashtanga Vinyasa. I’m an Ashtanga instructor under Donna Feiner and I study with Manju Jois directly. I do find it sad that this practice is not always presented, or practiced in the healing way in which it was intended.
I do hear of injuries, often resulting from practitioners or teachers being over enthusiastic or forceful in a posture, or adjustment. However, each of the postures can be taught with compassion and modifications that make them safe for most people.
I have seniors in my classes, as well as young whippersnappers. I’ve practiced daily for about 9 years and taught for 2, and I have to say that I have had no serious injuries of my own, and to my knowledge, not one injury of my students. In fact, this practice has been very healing for my hips and knees.
In fact the only time I was injured, it was in an Iyengar class. I’m not blaming the system at all, just maybe the exact circumstances that took place in that particular class.
I was just studying with David Swenson the other day in fact. One of the other students I was talking to gave this analogy which I love. “Yoga is a tool. Just like a hammer, you can either build something with it, or beat yourself over the head with it”. I guess it really depends on our knowledge of how to use it.
I do hope you have the opportunity to practice under an Ashtanga yoga teacher that teaches with compassion.
It is a very disciplined practice, but not an aggressive one.
You have a wonderful blog, thank you for sharing your thoughts/experiences with us.
Hope you enjoy good health and happiness,
Namaste,
Deb
Hi Stephanie,
This is an interesting discussion and thanks for sharing, even if it can stir the pot a little. I don’t think you are just being provocative.
Here in New York you will tend to get very traditional Ashtanga teachers, which can be a mixed bag honestly. They tend to have very advanced practices but eschew basic anatomy. For instance the rotation of the upper arm bones that is taught in methods like Iyengar Yoga is, among other things, key to maintaining the health of the rotator cuff muscles. This is an accepted anatomical reality that any physical therapist or massage practitioner would hold to. Of course there are some Ashtanga teachers like Chuck Miller and Maty Ezraty who teach much more carefully and modify more liberally to the individual. That approach seems largely frowned upon, as the use of props, modifications or alternate postures tend to produce a different practice entirely.
Based on what I read from Christo, it seems like he is teaching in a manner that reflects his training. He isn’t wrong to mention that there are injuries in Iyengar Yoga as well. It’s still a physical practice and every body is different. Iyengar Yoga does, however, leave room for different kinds of bodies and needs. In fact understanding the condition of each individual is a cornerstone of our method, and here in New York you will see a disproportionately high number of advanced practitioners over 50. Though there is nothing in Iyengar Yoga that actively discourages it, the idea of practicing so many poses every single day is definitely not emphasized. Personally, it gives me everything I need, but I have Ashtangi friends who don’t find it as alluring. I even brought a buddy to class, an Ashtangi with the classic hamstring issues. In one hour and a half session, the teacher showed him many details he hadn’t been taught before – straightening the knee, lifting the quadriceps muscles, the inward rotation up the femurs – yada yada. He felt better immediately and said, afterwards, “I feel like I can walk again”.
He still went back to Mysore class. Iyengar didn’t excite him enough. So nothing is for everyone.